Sunday, December 7, 2008

Christmas Confusion - Why Christians should get their own holiday

The trouble with how Christmas is celebrated by Christians is that they stole the date, symbology and meaning from other religions. Christ wasn't born in the middle of December -- read the bible. According to it, the shepherds were "in the fields with their flocks", which is an indication of sometime in mid-to-late spring, when the lambs were being born (hmmm, I wonder why Jesus is called the "lamb of God" -- couldn't be a coincidence, could it?).

Non-Christian religious festivals, holidays and celebrations were numerous in mid-winter long before Christianity -- Sol Invictus and Mithras were the two most prominent deities worshipped and celebrated in the Roman world. Most of the rituals and symbols used by Christians were lifted without alteration from those older, established religions -- blood sacrifice, the cross, rising from the dead in three days, wise men coming at his birth, gifts of incense and gold, born in a manger surrounded by animals, eating the "body and blood" of the savior, etc were all part of Mithraism and Sol Invictus religions hundreds of years before Jesus came along.

If the Christians were truly sincere in their efforts to fight the secularization of Christmas, perhaps they should clean their own closets first. Be honest and admit that Dec 25th is actually an non-Christian holiday that was stolen, your rituals and symbols are not "Christian", etc. Leave the Winter Solstice celebrations to those of us who don't follow your deity.

In other words, GO GET YOUR OWN HOLIDAY! (and don't even get me started on Easter -- that's an even worse transgression of symbol and date stealing!)

Somehow, I doubt that many would be willing to do that.

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

Chuck, since when is the solstice an atheist holiday?

You need to get your own. LOL?

A Theist

Chuck Lunney said...

"since when is the solstice an atheist holiday"

Ummm, when did I ever mention that the solstice was "atheistic"? My post was not intended to promote any 'atheistic holiday', but to point out that the fuss and furor over the "War on Christmas" is bogus from the start. It was never a Christian date!

Christians protest that non-Christians are trying to take the "Christ out of Christmas" -- but "Christmas" shouldn't be celebrated in December anyway.

I'm sorry if this is too difficult a concept for you.

Anonymous said...

And who are you to tell Christians when to celebarate Christmas, anyway?

A Theist

Anonymous said...

By the way, to answer your question, you DID say leave the solstice to those of US who don't worship your deity.

Since the us is YOU, the atheist, you most definitely claim that the solstice is athestic.

A Theist

Chuck Lunney said...

I'm not "telling" anyone to do anything -- I'm expressing my opinion that the Christians who whine about the "war on Christmas" should clean their own house, first.

You know, be honest and admit that the date, symbology and rituals haev absolutely nothing to do with Christianity?

And not all winter solstice celebrations were religious/theistic in nature. Why can't you figure out that the whole point is that YOU are the obnoxious intruder into other's space? Why are YOU so concerned about what an atheist thinks?

What is YOUR problem?

Not to mention, the whole anonymous thing appears to be a coward's way of doing business. Personally, I prefer to be upright, civil and open about myself and my views. I just wish others would have the same courage and courtesy.

AdamH said...

Trying to shut me out, eh? LOL?

But you ask, what is my problem.

Glad you asked; my problem is atheists like you and Iggy coming to the Tammeus block and trying to derail discussion of Bills posts, and generally denigrate faith and religion.

The atheist position is the supreme arrogance, as it maintains that all believers at all times have been wrong about all aspects of faith and are delusional.

Iggy has been doing this for a year at the Tammeus blog...worse, he has threatened people with "the wrath of Hannibal Lector" declaring that "Christian brains are delicious". Is he joking? Who knows, in this day and age, but I am under no obligation to take chances.

At the very least, he is one sick Fuck.

AdamH said...

By the way, your whole claim that the Christians "stole" the symbolism is itself a smear. Many groups borrow aspects of the culture they are in for purposes of communication.

That is not "theft".

So you are either willfully ignorant or simply lying.

Andrew said...

Adam, I say the reference to this site at the Bill Tammeus blog.

Mr. Lunney has only posted there two or three times under that name, but his buddy Igor has been posting there for a year.

Bill has allowed him to say just about anything he wants, contantly attacking believers in the most vicious way. I was at an IHOP breakfast where their WHOLE group laughed about it.

Lunney's pretensions to want to "understand" are a SHAM.

So very atheist.

So smug.

So SUPERIOR.

Chuck Lunney said...

Trying to shut me out, eh? LOL?


No, just trying to eliminate anonymous snipers and malcontents. If you're going to comment here, I'd like to know who you are.

my problem is atheists like you and Iggy coming to the Tammeus block and trying to derail discussion of Bills posts, and generally denigrate faith and religion.

Please show me where I tried to "derail" any discussions. I have posted comments directly related to the discussions, and commented directly on the topics Bill blogged about that day.

And speaking of "denigrating faith", I've noticed that you aren't all that keen on denouncing the other theists who are insulting Islam, Hinduism and other faiths on that blog. You seem far more interested in insulting and attacking any and all atheists.

The atheist position is the supreme arrogance, as it maintains that all believers at all times have been wrong about all aspects of faith and are delusional.

Where have I ever said that?

Lies and bearing false witness are sins in your religion, IIRC. Do you really want to go down that road?

I have always maintained a tentative, progressive view of knowledge, and although I am confident of the conclusions I've reached, I am always open to new information and the possibility of changing if the evidence warrants.

I don't see how one can label that as "arrogance" - I'm admitting that I could be wrong (unlike many believers who insist 100% that their version of their religion is "certain" and "true").

Iggy has been doing this for a year at the Tammeus blog...worse, he has threatened people with "the wrath of Hannibal Lector" declaring that "Christian brains are delicious". Is he joking? Who knows, in this day and age, but I am under no obligation to take chances.

At the very least, he is one sick Fuck.


And I have personally voiced my disagreement with his actions. I don't agree with being aggressively confrontational and purposefully insulting. In fact, I stated exactly that on Bill's blog when challenged. YOU know this -- why are you lying (again)?

Prejudicing and stereotyping is an unfortunately legacy of human evolution -- but just because it "is", doesn't mean we "ought" to follow it. Be a bigger man than your human evolutionary heritage -- accept that individuals are unique and quit being a bigoted fool.

Chuck Lunney said...

Mr. Lunney has only posted there two or three times under that name, but his buddy Igor has been posting there for a year.

Yes, I don't post to Bill's blog much. So what?

And Iggy is not my "buddy" -- he's a casual acquaintance. I'm not a member of his (or any other) local KC group. Quit stereotyping and being bigoted -- not all atheists are like Iggy (nor are they all like me).

Bill has allowed him to say just about anything he wants, contantly attacking believers in the most vicious way.

And that's up to Bill to deal with his own blog. Obviously, he doesn't feel as threatened as you do by the comments.

I was at an IHOP breakfast where their WHOLE group laughed about it.

Yes, groups often laugh about a lot of things. Denigrating and smearing others based on their enjoyment of life seems to be a very petty and petulant way of conducting your life.

And, if you were there, why didn't you introduce yourself and join the conversation? Are you worried that someone might laugh at you? Are you so insecure in your views and faith that you can't risk having it challenged by a few questions?

Here's a thought -- instead of posting random, anonymous comments on web blogs, go out and actually meet and converse face to face with others?

Lunney's pretensions to want to "understand" are a SHAM.

Really? You know so much about me from just a few web postings? You have no clue about me, my person, or my values. You don't know my history, the full scope of my views, nor the reasons and rationale for deriving them.

You are being very pretentious and arrogant to come here and presume to know me so well. Perhaps rather than outwardly attacking and insulting others, you could direct that focus inward and figure out why you are so angry?

AdamH said...

I agree that I probably have no clue about you, your person. or your values, because you apparently lie like a dog.

Ergo, I can't really trust your Star articles or posts here to give true info.

Why do I say you lie? Because you claimed to not really know Iggy, and yet when I hadn't been posting here for more than a half hour at most he suddenly shows up and jumps in.

Obviously you are in communication with him and tag teaming people over at the Bill Tammeus blog. That is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

But why am I angry? Because atheists have done harm to me and my family, ridiculed me, and smeard me on the net. Thats why.

And tne guys like you come on the faith section of the star pretending to want to understand when you have already decided we are all delusional fools. (You forget that I have been to some of the meetings, and I have heard the atheist mob in action.)

You have done nothing to demonstrate otherwise.