Monday, December 22, 2008

Commenting on Trolls and Abusers

It's interesting to see how paranoid and delusional some get when a little bit of their freedom to spew hatred and insults gets curtailed. Late last week, I tried something that I've not done before (mainly because I didn't know how it would work) -- comment moderation.

What it did was put any new comments in a queue (that's a line, for those non-bilingual folks) that must be first viewed and approved by the blog owner -- yours truly. As I've only had a few people reading this blog, and one is extremely virulent and ugly, I thought perhaps that might work as a way to get him to slow down and think a little.

Alas, I was wrong -- it not only didn't slow him down, it increased his insults and attacks. I've now re-opened the comments (it was a short experiment just to see what would happen). I didn't remove any comments (you can look here, here and here to see the comments he posted while waiting for me to "approve" them). It appears that when caged, trolls get even uglier and more viscious.

Given the recent hubbub in upstate Washington over displays in the Capitol building, I thought it was an interesting test - I went from a completely open commenting section to one with a minor restriction, and the troll exploded. Just like the religionists up in Washington (and across the nation) when told that the fully open display ordinance would allow someone to -- GASP! -- put up a sign that was dismissive of religious belief. Good Heavens! We can't have that!

I've now restored the previous order -- comments are no longer moderated or held up prior to posting. I've also put through all the troll-ish comments and personal attacks so everyone can see the effect that even minor limits cause. I can't understand the level of hatred, vitriol and ignorance displayed by this particular troll, but if he wants to continue spouting his attacks and childish pouting, I'm not going to stop him.

It's like the theists are acting as trolls (or vise versa). Both want all the freedom they can get, but can't tolerate either inclusion of other views, or any limits on their actions. Sorry -- you can't have your cake and eat it too.

5 comments:

Andrew said...

Let me explain something. You claim not to understand us, and there are four, not one.

Here is the deal, your buddy IGGY trashed the Tammeus blog for a year.

The local atheists said not a word of protest, even though Greg Swartz commented now and again on the blog.

The little prick Iggy made the most vicious comments imaginable, and the atheists laughed about it.

So I called you on it, and you went off.

And now you are whining. LOL!

You are utterly unable to take criticism...even when it started on a casual level, you got defensive, and the arrogance of your supposed superiority drips from your posts.

It was present in your star columns last year.

Look, you are the guy who served in a war for oil, so I can understand your stress, but you need to understand something...you have no power over us.

None.

Quit pretending like you do.

Get it now?

Chuck Lunney said...

Let me explain something. You claim not to understand us, and there are four, not one.

Four what, Andrew? People? Ideas? Insults?

So far, the only two "people" that have commented here are you and Adam. On the Faithwalk comments (where I spent most of my time last year), there were a couple more, but it was clear that at least a few of those "names" were sock-puppets of the same person.

Here is the deal, your buddy IGGY trashed the Tammeus blog for a year.

1) Iggy is not my "buddy", he's a person I first met in September, and I have repeatedly stated that I don't agree with many of his comments and actions.

2) The first time I read Tammeus' blog was when I was challenged on the Faithwalk comments to denounce Iggy's statements over there -- IN OCTOBER! I have not followed that blog (nor do I care to go back and try and figure it out). What happened over there prior to October does not concern me! It may be emotionally relevant to you, but so what?

3) The monitoring and control of Tammeus' blog is up to him. If you have issues or concerns with abuse, ad hominem, or other offenses over there - complain to Bill. Coming here and bitching about what happens over there sounds a lot like sour grapes.

The local atheists said not a word of protest, even though Greg Swartz commented now and again on the blog.

What - you can't defend yourself from a simple ad hominem attack? I posted a statement against Iggy's actions and words over there when challenged that I wouldn't. I went over, read a few things he had written, and agreed that it was out of bounds and innappropriate, and called him on it.

The little prick Iggy made the most vicious comments imaginable, and the atheists laughed about it.

And I wasn't a part of that (if it's even true). Do you have a reference to the comments where "the atheists laughed about it"? I've certainly seen my fair share of theists laughing at insults and personal attacks on atheists on the Faithwalk comments and on Tammeus' blog, too. You don't see me running over to unaffiliated theist's blogs and whining about it, do you?

So I called you on it, and you went off. And now you are whining. LOL!

"Went off"? "Whining"? What do you mean? What I've written has nothing to do with Tammeus' blog -- did you even read Adam's comments? How obnoxious, offensive and ad hominem does he need to get before you'll decry his actions?

From what I've seen, you (if you are a different person from Adam, and not just another sock puppet) are a much more intelligent and reasoned person -- but your tacit approval of the insults, attacks and offensive behavior of Adam and others here, on Tammeus' blog and in the Faithwalk columns indicates a very definitive double standard.

You complain about Iggy -- who I've personally disagreed with numerous times. Yet not a single word about the insults and attacks hurled by other theists against me? Do you see why your complaints ring hollow and false to me?

You are utterly unable to take criticism...even when it started on a casual level, you got defensive, and the arrogance of your supposed superiority drips from your posts. It was present in your star columns last year.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Did you even read the Faithwalk columns?

Did you read the comments and insults directed at me there? Did you ever bother to chastise the theists when they blatantly insulted, attacked and threatened me? NO -- you were completely silent. What a disappointing double standard, Andrew.

Look, you are the guy who served in a war for oil, so I can understand your stress.

What does that have to do with my atheism or the insults and attacks directed at me?

I ended my service in the military nearly five years ago. I served honestly, proudly and with honor. But how that has any bearing whatsoever on the insults and threats directed at me here is completely obscure to me. You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with your hatred to the military -- why?

but you need to understand something...you have no power over us. None. Quit pretending like you do. Get it now?

I get that you feel threatened by outspoken critics of the status quo preferential treatment of your favored religious belief. That's your problem, not mine.

I don't want "power" over anyone, just fair and ethical treatment of all viewpoints and people. It's a logical, reasonable and fair position that is based on a comprehensive understanding of ethics, law and the Constitution. I have the same rights as you. And given that I've served to defend and protect this country for 15 years -- I think I've probably got a better claim on those rights than you ever will.

Of course, a good start on showing your committment to reasonable and polite discussion would be an elimination of the insults, attacks and threats from all sides -- you can start by telling Adam (or whatever his sockpuppet nom-du-jour is) to actually grow some balls and be civil and respectful of others.

Andrew said...

Simply put, I don't believe your claims about Iggy. For one thing, you pretend not to be part of their organization, but I KNOW you are in contact with them regularly.

And your constant references to "Sock Puppets" are just more attempts to poison the well. Put more simply, you are a liar.

Oh, and as to your "honorable service"...you served a war machine that has visited death and destruction around the world, using chemical weapons in the process, and that doesn't help its own Vets in need. If you want to pat yourself on the back about what a great thing you did, do for it. But you are living a delusion.

And you say you have the same rights as me? And then claim you have more claim on those rights than me? Balderdash, my rights do not come from YOU or the STATE. That is your other delusion.

You didn't protect or defend this country, you protected and defended its corparate interests...you were a tool.

As far as insults, you have used them from the beginning.

Your arrogant sense of superiority even comes out in the spurious claim that you have more rights than me, because of your military service. You let the cat out of the bag on that one! Hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

I don't believe you think theists should have the same rights, I don't believe you think they should be protected, and I believe that if your crowd had the power the Gulags would return.

Chuck Lunney said...

Simply put, I don't believe your claims about Iggy. For one thing, you pretend not to be part of their organization, but I KNOW you are in contact with them regularly.

Likewise, I don't believe you in your claims not to be a sock puppet of Adam/clarissa/jim/eddie/etc.

Yes, I keep in the loop on what the local freethought/atheist groups do around KC. Again, so what? I've never denied knowing him or others in the local groups -- but I am not, nor have I ever been, a "member" of any local group.

And your constant references to "Sock Puppets" are just more attempts to poison the well. Put more simply, you are a liar.

No, they are clear references to someone who has admitted using at least two separate 'names' to throw insults and threats at me.

That, my little friend, is the very definition of sock puppet.

Oh, and as to your "honorable service"...you served a war machine that has visited death and destruction around the world, using chemical weapons in the process, and that doesn't help its own Vets in need. If you want to pat yourself on the back about what a great thing you did, do for it. But you are living a delusion.

So, you don't think the military is a good thing. So what?

What does that have to do with anything I've written about religion and atheism -- other than you're trying to "poison the well"?

And you say you have the same rights as me? And then claim you have more claim on those rights than me? Balderdash, my rights do not come from YOU or the STATE. That is your other delusion.

Yes, I do think I've got a more legitimate claim to those rights than you do, actually. I've sacrificed my time and committment to protecting the borders and Constitution of the nation I love for nearly half my life. You, on the other hand, apparently are too ignorant of history to recognize the debt you owe to the military.

As to your "rights", they are delineated in the Constitution -- i.e., the "state".

You didn't protect or defend this country, you protected and defended its corparate interests...you were a tool.

Are you this arrogantly ignorant in every subject? Are you this personally insulting and stupid in person? Or is this show of pseudo-bravado just another manifestation of Eddie's sockpuppetry, after all?

As far as insults, you have used them from the beginning.

Ummm, no. I have always started conversations politely and respectfully, and I try not to be too insulting unless the other side becomes threatening or abusive.

And you have yet to acknowledge or decry Adam's insults, ad hominems and threats.

Continued attacks from you aren't winning any points here.


Your arrogant sense of superiority even comes out in the spurious claim that you have more rights than me, because of your military service. You let the cat out of the bag on that one!

Yes, I do think that my service and dedication deserve respect. Unlike you, I'm proud of my country, and I am willing to give my life defending it.

At this point, I have no problem saying I'm "better" than you -- because your increasingly virulent and childish rants have gotten tiresome and idiotic.

I don't believe you think theists should have the same rights, I don't believe you think they should be protected, and I believe that if your crowd had the power the Gulags would return.

Another display of ignorance -- please provide a reference where gulags were ever used by the USA. If they haven't ever existed in the past, how could they "return"?

At this point, I have to say you've fallen into the "troll" category. I had higher hopes for a conversation with you, but you've fallen into a pathetic morass of wastefulness.

PLONK.

AdamH said...

What threats did I make to you Lunney? Saying you are liar is not a threat, it is a statment of fact. (But I can show you where IGGY threateded people.)

For example, you have done nothing to "defend" this country. You may have killed people on orders of your superiors, but you have not defended the country.

Show me where in the Constitution your military "service" gives you a more legitimate claim to rights than any of us?

Obama never served in the military, McCain did...did that give him a greater claime to rights than Obama?

Go ahead...show me from the Constitution, one of those "man made" documents atheists decry, where your rights are greater than mine!!!

Quote it, sport!!!

And he is correct, our rights do not come from the STATE, although the Constitution may "delininate" SOME of them. If you were so up on the Constitution, you would know it does not limit rights to those "deliniated" within the same.

We are endowed with inalienable rights by our Creator; and without the Declaration there would have BEEN NO Constitution.

Tell me, do you know many disabled Vets? I know some. They say the VA has left them to rot. Screw the Army.

(Oh, and as for Gulags used by the USA, they were called "internment camps". Of course, they were small scale, because the US has never been an officially atheistic nation. And SECULAR does not equal ATHEIST.)