Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Should a Mosque be Built Near Ground Zero in NYC?

The NYC Community Board voted last week to approve plans for the building of a 13-story Islamic community center and mosque only a few blocks away from Ground Zero.  The USAToday article has an online poll question that asks "Do you agree with the board's decision? Yes or No".  Right now, it's running at 86% saying "no".  That's disturbing and offensive, if you asked me.

I know how tempting it would be to say "absolutely not" to that question, but think about the consequences of such an answer.  From what I understand, this mosque is being built by private financing, on privately owned land, only a couple blocks from the sight of the worst terrorist attack on American soil.  It's being vilified and attacked already by the teabaggers and bigots as "insensitive", "evil" and "disgraceful".   But what is insensitive, evil and disgraceful (as well as stupid and ignorant) is the sheer arrogance of these people to openly attack their cherished Constitution. 

While it's true that the attackers on 9/11 were Muslim, they do not represent all of Islam.  And unless someone can show that this Islamic cultural center (and mosque) are being financed by illegitimate terrorist organizations, I don't see how anyone could possibly say it should be stopped, unless they want to dismantle the essential freedoms guaranteed in our Constitution

The First Amendment states that we have the freedoms of religious expression, assembly and speech.  The calls by the bigots and teabaggers to stop this planned construction violate every single one of those freedoms.  Can't they figure that out? 

  • If you say we shouldn't allow the mosque because it's not "our" religion -- that violates the free expression clause. 
  • If you say we shouldn't allow it because it would let Muslims congregate and organize near the site of the attack, that violates the free assembly clause. 
  • If you say we shouldn't allow it because the imams might preach something you don't agree with, that violates the free speech clause.

If these ignorant savages had any sense at all, they'd realize that what they're doing is calling for a theocratic dictatorship.  If that's what they want, I suggest they all move away, because this country was founded and has remained (mostly) a secular representative republic that is founded on the principles of personal liberty and freedom, not draconian Christian Dominionism.  That sort of theocratic, authoritarian dictator-led government has been tried before, and is still functioning in many nations around the globe.  Maybe the teabaggers would feel more comfortable over there -- like Iran, Yemen or North Korea.  Personally, I wouldn't mind shipping all of them off to someplace like that.  Maybe after a few months under those governments, they'd understand the need for the freedoms and liberties that are ascertained by our Constitution.

Come on, America.  Be a bigger, more inclusive, more tolerant, and more honest nation.  If you truly cherish and respect the Constitution that our nation was founded on, don't let the bigots and idiots run the place. 


Winston Smith said...

Glad to see you defending Freedom of Religion, Lunney!

You do realize that the leaders of the local atheist groups are still calling believers Delusional Psychotics who should KEEP THEIR BELIEFS TO THEMSELVES, CRAWL UNDER A ROCK, and SHUT UP don't you?

Of course you do.

What else is new? They have said it a hundred times so I am starting to think they really mean it! (chuckle)

THANK GOD the MAIN ONE is not a citizen! It means he will never wield political power over me!


Chuck Lunney said...

Glad to see the trolls haven't gotten any more intelligent or inventive.

Too bad they can't figure out how to rationally comment on the actual topic of the post. Instead, all I see is lies, ad hominem and insults.

I've heard it said that when your opponent is reduced to only insults, you've won the argument.

Game, set, match.

Winston Smith said...

Uh, the ad hominems are the words the ATHEISTS THEMSELVES have been using.

You know, calling beleivers all the names I mentioned.



Ad nauseum...

The LIE would be denying that they said it, Jack!

If you disagree, please point out what the LIE was in my orignal post.

Your Humble Servant awaits your response!

www.KCFreeThinkers.org said...


I wonder if 4 blocks away from Ground Zero instead of 3 blocks would be enough of a containment zone to restrain Islamic genies by Christian demons? I'd love to see the battle of these superheroes...

Or 5 blocks? Don't the crazies understand that it's all "relative?" I bet you building a Xian church would be a welcome sign.

Little to the people know that they all worship the same god, just different prophets/deities?

I also enjoyed the sign one of the protesters held "Don't teach us about religious tolerance. Judeo/Christian values give you freedom""


www.KCFreeThinkers.org said...

I see this number of 85% coming up again again and again - in 80-85%. - it appears to be the "magic Christian majority" number - I CALL IT IRRATIONAL THINKING BY OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA.

Depending on ohw you ask the question 15-20% of Americans would describe themselbves as non believers. E.g. Is America a Christian Nations - Yes - or Woudl you vote for an atheist president otherwise qualifed - No - 80-85% - so this would leave 15-20% who'd answer otherwise. About 21% of US enlisted personel marks "not religious", so we are safe to say that 15-20% of Americans are non religious.

This appears to be an interesting number - you keep hearing from Christians that "not all Christians" are fundies which I agree with. However, the "fundy" mentality and thought of Christians en masse is overwhelmingly showing that they cannot wrap their brains around the poltical process and even the "god given freedom of speech" they tout left and right when it comes to promoting their version of religion.

I don't think this is "confrontrational" to point it out to Christians and also fellow atheists/agnostics - it's reality.

We can talk till cows come home about "liberal/rational Christianity" - it maybe 1-5% in the polls on the Mosque, but it is being washed and shouted down by the fundies.

Maybe it's time for "liberal Xians" to understand that the delusions of the "fundies" are based ont he same faith they both share and it's time for liberal Xians to start a new movement and get going to "preach the gospel of rationality" to their fundy fellow Xians?

Bill Tammeus (well known itnerfaith person in KC) stated to me once that he gave up on fundamental Christians - and Bill has been around for a while. He came to the conclusion that nothing will change their mind.

I think that "liberal Xians" acutally off the mark quite a bit - fundies are 10-15% of Xians, so, this would leave 85-90% of fellow Xians who are the silent marjority when it comes to rights of other faiths/religions to push their own agenda.

Catch 22 for Xianity - they would not mind "tesifying" in comfort of majority about their faith, but when others want to do the same - my woo woo is bigger than your woo woo..

I hate to be always right...

Winston Smith said...

Witty words from a Fundamentalist Atheist!

Thanks, Iggy!

By the way, I heard about you comment to the Provocateurs that you are glad you are not an American.

So am I!

It means you will never hold a position of political power over me!

And I am still wondering why you would have left a country that had prospered under 70 years of Officially Atheistic Government to come to the "cesspool of Overland Park.".

But, to each his own.

Seriously, I love your work! If not for you, atheists might have actually had some influence.


Winston Smith said...

By the way, KCF, your words of wisdom have been preserved for posterity in Bill's archives.

But, just in case, I have downloaded over two years worth of material!!!

You know, just in case Bill wanted to get rid of it for some reason!


Winston Smith said...

By the way, I am only preserving this SO NOT ONE WORD YOU SAID ON THAT BLOG WILL BE LOST!'

NOT ONE WORD, because they are som informative!

Chuck Lunney said...

Go away, troll. You aren't even man enough to use your own name. Until you start using your real name, posting topical and relevant comments re: actual substantive issues, and drop the insults and attacks on others, you will be completely ignored.

Winston Smith said...

I don't care if you ignore me, since you never say anything besides insults anyway.

But I will answer the smears, like, uh, whether you like it or not.

And when KCFREETHINKER is "Man" enough to use his real name here and elsewhere, I will do the same!

Your ATHEIST DOUBLE STANDARD is getting boring.